INTERVIEW

How did you meet Věra Bílá?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : I started to follow Věra long before she knew anything about me. In 1990 I was making a film with a Romany dance troupe and they told me of a special performance. It was great, a big hall with ten rows of Romanies and the last row just whites. Then this huge woman came on stage and started to sing like an angel. From the moment I saw her on stage I knew she might be an interesting figure for a film; no one else looks like her ! She sang a halgato and in that was everything; a stzle of life, suffering, feeling, emotions, everything. When I finally met her at home, she said,"You are some kind of journalist. I don't like them because they are always bothering me." I said , I was something worse because I was a film director and I would be bothering her for at least half a year. Vűra said, "Alright then" and asked if I was hungry. From then one all of us, cameraman, sound man would always come and eat before we started working.

Was it difficult to persuade Věra Bílá to reveal her personal feelings and opinions on camera?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : Yes, but that is normal when you are filming. Everybody needs to get used to having a camera and a crew around. I visited Věra over the three months before we started filming but there were still problems because she is very moody and was distressed about her son being in jail at the time. Nevertheless, I was very impressed with how open and willing she was to speak about herself. I don't know many mothers who would tell me to film their sons in jail ! We went through a lot together and only by doing so can one understand her. I realised that for there was no real concept of time. What happened five minutes ago or twenty years back meant the same to her. So all of a sudden she would remember how she was afraid of drowning her son when she batehd him as a baby. The catch is that if she is in a bad mood she can tell you something completely the opposite the following day. It is not exactly a lie, she is just saying what she feels at that very moment.

Was there a barrier that you did not want go beyond?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : There is always a barrier. There is always a moment when you feel that you are taking advantage of someone and when you should stop. Or you find yourslef in a position when someone is being open and sincere and you can manipulate them. Particualrly with Romanies the potential to manipulate is very strong because they are very open and trusting. I did not want to take advantage of Vűra:I wanted to show her as she really is, good and bad qualities. I wanted to introduce viewers to her as an individual from the broadest most humane perspective.

Do you feel that today it has become fashionable in some circles to recognize Věra Bílá and Kale?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : If it becomes fashionable in a country where Romanies are barely recognized as fellow citizens then I am delighted.But I started making this film before most people were aware that Věra Bílá existed. Věra is an exception of course. She has produced the first two Czech CDs in Romany, she performs in fashionable Prague venues like Roxy or Acropolis but it is interesting that she has never got to play at Lucerna and her CDs are hard to find in the shops. There may be a trendy turn out at the launch of her latest CD but the next day you won't find anyone buying it.

DAVID CHARAP: I think it is important for it to be completely normal and unremarkable to have friends here who are Romany or to enjoy their music. Unfortunately, in the Czech republic racism is taken for granted. Of course there is racism in the USA or in Western Europe but it is no longer something one can openly declare wheras here public officials will happily joke about Romanies. It was very striking what Věra's manager said about the film. He said it was the first time he had seen Czech Gypsies on screen who were not being presented as some kind of problem.

How does it feel to film 'an outsider' if you yourself are a foreigner ?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : A foreigner is an outsider if he travels and sees things as a tourist but after living ten years in Prague and studying with Czech teachers at the Film Academy I do not feel as an outsider here. Besides I think as a director there are no real barriers; either a film is good or it isn't, it doesn't matter if you are Woody Allen or Emir Kustarica it is important what you want your films to say. As for Věra, she is a typical Czech. I had to beg her to cook me Romany food.

If you are not an outsider and this is a Czech film , why did no Czech director attempt to tackle this subject earlier?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : I also ask myself that. I only know that it took me three years to get this film off the ground. I couldn't get anyone to invest the money to make it. It was only when the Open Soceity Institute in the States agreed to back me that the Czech Ministry of Culture came up with a grant. It was when Romanies started to emigrate and people were writing about their plight. Everyone was suddenly an expert ! Perhaps that helped me raise the backing. In a sense it is still a miracle to be able to raise the money in a small country like the Czech republic to shoot a documentary on film.

Has the making of the film affected your life or outlook?
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : I have learnt from Věra not to get so fretted. They really live from one day to the next and so they can appreciate the joy of any one moment. I think that has affected the whole crew. Even my cameraman said he needs to get away, lie back on Vűra's pile of cushions listen to her problems or what happened that day. When I was away in London and hadn't seen her fro a month she said she had to see me because she couldn't remember how I looked. I'd only heard something like that from my own father when he really missed me.

Apart from Czech television the film is produced by your husband David Charap...
MIRA ERDEVIČKI : We had originally decided he should edit the film because he is a good editor but when I got the grants it was clear I need to have a company to produce the film so he stepped in.

How is it working with your wife as an editor and producer?
DAVID CHARAP It varies. We already discovered this on other projects where we have worked together. On the one hand it is wonderful to work with someone who is totally committed to the project so that both of you really live and breathe the film. On the other hand you cannot come home and complain to your partner about the terrible director you have. There is nowhere to escape. When it works, it is fantastic; you discover a new dimension to your relationship, a new respect for each other. But when things are not going well, it can tear into the good things you have together. The relationship between a producer and director is almost inevitably a conflict. But like my co-producer âestmir Kopecký at Czech television I feel the main job of a producer is to make space for the director. That meant trying to keep from interfering unnecessarily in the filming but to keep encouraging Mira to define and redefine what she was after.

Why did you seek to make the project on film and not on video like most documentaries?
DAVID CHARAP It was something that came not only from Mira but also from the camerman Marek Jícha. They knew that shooting on film isn't just a matter of better picture quality but because it is expensive it forces you to decide exactly what you want to film. Film also means that we hope to present this project to a wider audience than would normally watch a TV documentary.

Why is your company called Arcimboldo?
DAVID CHARAP He was a Mannerist painetr who made portraits that questionned the relationship between Man and Nature. He was a foreigner in Prague who made interesting works. I would liketo do something similar. The company used to be just me but it is gradually becoming a forum for young film makers all over Europe and that is what I want to continue.

Whar has the film BLACK AND WHITE IN COLOUR taught you?
DAVID CHARAP Documentary truth. It is very common in documentaries today to distort, to sentimentalize but I think this film within the constraints the film making process inevitably entails has managed to capture something real and that is a big success. I hope that after an hour a viewer will have a sense of who Věra Bílá is and grasp something about who Romanies are. I hope that people will see that diversity is something valuable. It is easy to be tolerant towards someone who is the same as you are. But tolerance is really about how we relate to people who are different, not necessarily better or worse, just different. For me the film is a reminder that the world is not simply divided into black and white but that it has a whole range of colours.